It's not fighting between the scoobs that bothers me, it's when they go out of character to get them to do something during the fight. Yes, Buffy and Giles would disagree about what to do about Spike. And maybe a couple years ago, Giles would have considered secretly having him killed. But the Giles of today respect's Buffy's judgment, considers her the leader and himself an advisor, and has this thing about being honest with her. During the ep I kept trying to mentally rewrite it to have it a plot between Robin, Xander and the SiW's. Kennedy's already been shown to have no problem lying to Buffy - and she's all about taking power for herself.

Refresh my memory - I thought what Giles and Robin had plotted was that Robin would find out if Spike was still under the FE's control, and if he was, then he'd kill him? Still going behind Buffy's back, but she'd pretty much tied their hands about not keeping Spike chained up.

I had actually been sort of hoping for some nice scene between Giles and Spike where Giles appeals to the better angels of the vamp's nature instead of the whole, "I'll tell Buffy to look at some shiny object, and while she's distracted, you blast Spike with Johnny Nolan's greatest hits and stake him."

I thought what Giles and Robin had plotted was that Robin would find out if Spike was still under the FE's control, and if he was, then he'd kill him?

I don't think there was any "if...then" about the plan, just "I'll distract Buffy while you kill Spike."

I was so pissed at Giles by the end of that ep - not because of Spike but because deceiving Buffy like that and making her decisions for her was so fucked up in terms of their history - that I loved her shutting the door on him. I do wish, though, that that act had led to something - some aspect of the situation taking a distinct turn for the better or the worse because of the wall between Buffy and Giles. It did contribute to her isolation, yes, but I was hoping for something a little more concrete.

There seems to be a lot of agreement that convincing emotional connections are not always being made between characters who have a lot of history and depth between them.

What does this mean? a) that the writers are trying to hint, via the ``offness'' of the characters, that they are not themselves for some intended plot reason, such as being influenced by the FE OR b) that the writers have so much to get through in a few episodes that they can't pay the important attention to little character details OR c) that our expectations are impossibly high.

I actually find it quite plausible that the Giles/Buffy relationship would be turning a bit sour at this point, although not to the extent portrayed in that episode.

Just re-watched the series 2 opener, When She Was Bad, a total Jossian production. Lots of cool stuff in it -- opens with Willow and Xander strolling past the graveyard playing the movie quote game, Xander wiping icecream off her nose and nearly kissing her. Later Buffy's bad sexy dance with Xander. It's so dark you can barely see Xander's expression, but he looks almost blank, as if he's too stunned to have an expression.

Angel and Xander and Willow are so thin, Buffy nicely covered before her long thinning arc, and Giles so much more gauche.

I adore that episode. Quotable, angsty, funny, good Buffy hair, good music. Although it made me overuse the phrase "spank your inner moppet" a tad. Thanks Kassto! I'm gonna go re-watch it right now!

I still remember my bitter disappointment when that Chibo Mato song was not on the Buffy soundtrack.

Yes, there's even a Xander joke about Chibo Mato clog dancing. And for God's sake, isn't that the Lennon child playing bass for the band?

Do you have everything on tape Emlah? I just got a bunch of season 2 from the video shop. Have season 3 and 5 borrowed from a friend. Have season 2 and 5 on DVD as a special treat to myself though have no DVD player!

Oh yeah, "Sugar Water" is an absolute classic. I would have to say that's my favourite song ever to have been featured in Buffy.