I think 90 percent of all TV programmes from anywhere are crap. And that is a good thing, otherwise I wouldn't be able to drag myself away from the box. But we were brought up to always believe that British culture (including TV) was superior to American culture, which was mainly commercialised junk. In the '70s and '80s I think the Poms did lead the way in TV with topnotch period drama (eg Upstairs Downstairs), comedies (the sublime The Good Life) and cutting edge dramas (The Singing Detective, Edge of Darkness).

But the Americans seem more cutting edge to me in recent years -- Buffy, the Sopranos, the Simpsons, King of the Hill, Six Feet Under...

But the Americans seem more cutting edge to me in recent years -- Buffy, the Sopranos, the Simpsons, King of the Hill, Six Feet Under...

Of those, two are cable programs, and two are cartoons. We do do adult cartoons well, though the Simpsons lost its way about five years ago, never to find it again.

I'm one of the people who doesn't like SFU, having a great dislike for Alan Ball. It's very slick, and very much making too much of an effort for me. I tried to like it, damn it.

With the exception of Firefly, which is gone, I've not managed to get invested in a new series in about three years.

Edit: it's interesting to see the view from abroad on it, though. What all do you get in the way of US tv?

The majority of shows that I watch are American. I think, imo at least, that the American shows we get in the UK are either exceptionally good, like Buffy, The West Wing, the Sopranos, or exceptionally bad, like Dr. Phil and Fear Factor.

There have been precious few good British shows in recent years, but a couple of shows stand out--The League of Gentlemen and Spaced, for example. I don't think that either of those would travel particularly well though.

Also, I so very much agree about the Simpsons. It should have been put out of our misery a long time ago. Long live Futurama! What's that you say? Cancelled? Quelle surprise?!

I liked the League of Gentlemen, so I think it travelled well.

Yes, Plei, but aside from Coupling (and other BBC America shows) is there anything out there?

Also, while you may be one of those who thinks the Simpsons went south 5 years ago, I personally just think it changed. It's not the show it was 5 years ago, and in a lot of ways I miss that show, but the one that's there now is pretty fucking good.

Anyway - is there something out there you're hearing about that you're not getting? Television's has NEVER given me a lot of what I want. Hell, shows I loved once upon a time I can barely watch anymore (MASH, Mary Tyler Moore, Classic Trek - hell any Trek but DS9).

In Oz we have a broadcasting standard which mandates that there be a certain percentage of local tv aired, which means we get a lot of American drama and a lot of Aussie skit 'comedies', talk-shows etc (there's a positively eerie over-abundance of home-improvement shows, indicating disturbing national trend, imo) which all cost less to produce than your average drama.

I'm one of the people who doesn't like SFU, having a great dislike for Alan Ball. It's very slick, and very much making too much of an effort for me. I tried to like it, damn it.

Oh thank god, I was beginning to suspect I was alone. My cousin, who's a reasonably avid Buffy/Angel fan, loves SFU and I just can't take it.

So, I'm curious - is the Alan Ball hatred I see so much of on the net (no, you folks are not alone) based solely on American Beauty and 6FU? Because, if so, I don't quite get it. I didn't think AB lived up to its hype, but I certainly thought a decent night out at the movies. And I find that 6FU is different enough from everything else out there to warrant the attention. Or at least my attention.

I guess I'm confused by the vituperation he seems to inspire. Is it the critical cache vs. the actual result that's being objected to?

Is it the critical cache vs. the actual result that's being objected to?

I think that's a lot of it, for me. t rant I've watched a fair amount of SFU because it had a lot of hype and didn't initially grate on my last nerve like a rusty butter knife wielded by an overly zealous yuppie who's idea of 'deep' is having people be horrible to each other and say 'fuck' a lot...wait, where was I? Ah, yes--SFU ticks me off because it's a depressive insular world filled with petty, pretentious people with limited vocabularies who are all begging for a vicious slap upside the head. If I wanted to watch that I'd watch Married with Children reruns and have done with it. t /rant

Edit: Okay, that came out more vitriolic than I intended (if only by a little). More rationally: Alan Ball gets a lot of praise for subverting the normal happy American-family stereotype, which is all well and good, but it's been done before and done better (as in The Simpsons: the good years to give one obvious example). What gets me is that SFU isn't really a subversion, it's just the opposite side of the same coin, and thus it's just as pat and cliche filled as the original stereotype.

Ah, yes--SFU ticks me off because it's a depressive insular world filled with petty, pretentious people with limited vocabularies who are all begging for a vicious slap upside the head.

Are we talking about SFU or America here? (:

Seriously, though, I've only seen a couple episodes, as I don't have pay cable. Like what I've seen, though. Did like American Beauty, though, although I don't think I see it like everyone else.

Are we talking about SFU or America here? (:

If I was going on your current foreign policy and current 'elected' president, then maybe. :P But, y'know, us Aussies have voted a right wing racist government into power three elections running so I could just as easily be talking about us, really.