I see. That doesn't indeed align with The Matrix, but is a subset of my interpretation of the scenario.

Still have no idea what's inherently male about it, but I don't read enough theorists/scientists/philosophers to be an expert.

In fact, it seems reasonably core to philosopy -- anything I can come up with (though not explore well, of course) before my tenth birthday doesn't strike me as all too abstract.

the question of whether or not the body is a necessary element to thought/life/consciousness.

Ah, I see.

I really haven't encountered this particular idea often enough to have strong feelings about it - my gut reaction would be a big fat honking "well of course it is. Duh!" At which point the theorist/scientist/ philosopher would likely hit me with a big dusty book.

But I do remember getting very animated about the concept of AI, because I don't think that something we could recognise as thought/life/consciousness, or that we could engage with in any meaningful dialogue, could exist without a biological body and a context.

I have no solid basis for this, though, and could perhaps be shown that I am in fact on crack.

I don't see any reason the body is a necessary part, but it does assume something's going to be faking some of its functions, or the brain dies. So that's a semantic game.

I'm really lousy at philosophy, because I just end up saying "Well, that could be taken care of by something beyond my ken. And there are lots of things like that."

Every nightmare is a desire trying to break the surface, right? Or so would a Freudian say. I like the idea of head-in-a-jar as an overblown fear/wish of castration.

You know what? A head in a jar still has eyes and ears and can probably tell it's had its body amputated. A brain in a jar, without sensory input of any kind, would be a lot more like the Matrix interface, in that all sensation being fed to the sensation-interpreters is not acutally coming from the body's own sensation-gatherers.

There's a marvellous John Collier brain-in-a-jar story.

IIRC, Niven has an ongoing long-time (30 yrs+) marriage to an anything-but-stupid woman.

Yeah, and Heinlein had a long-lasting marriage to an anything-but-stupid woman, but he still had very very strange ideas about women and how they worked.

I haven't heard anybody say "Niven is a sexist". I have heard "Mindless females is a really creepy and disturbing idea."

my gut reaction would be a big fat honking "well of course it is. Duh!"

See, me too. Which is where I think the gender thing, or at the very least gender theory, comes in. And no, I have absolutely no intention of getting into gender theory right now because BOORRRING!

because I don't think that something we could recognise as thought/life/consciousness, or that we could engage with in any meaningful dialogue, could exist without a biological body and a context.

Well let's say it's housed in a computer. Doesn't then computer=input/output interface=body? So see, you still have a body, at least by my reckoning. Which is part of what I found interesting about the Matrix--the whole weird cyborg body of the AI.

Which is where I think the gender thing, or at the very least gender theory, comes in

I know you don't want to get into it, but maybe there's a one-sentence answer to explain to me where gender has anything to do with it.

I just don't see it, not least of all because my reaction is, and always has been, "why not?"

I know you don't want to get into it, but maybe there's a one-sentence answer to explain to me where gender has anything to do with it.

Trust me, there isn't. Or at the very least, I ain't gonna be able to compose it. If you can't see how and where gender may fit in, it would take a very long rehash of the history of gender theory to explain it. Ain't gonna go there. And I think the other readers of this thread are, deep in their heart of hearts, thanking me for that.

I just don't see it, not least of all because my reaction is, and always has been, "why not?"

Because bobbing up and down in your bottle full of formaldehyde is not going to earn you that black belt, missy.

Huh.

That just hit a hot button of mine.

How odd.

edit: Burrell, not Betsy. Betsy hit a warm button.