Yeah, the author got that feedback already on another board. From her comments, it looked like she just didn't have a great grasp of west coast geography.

There's really no excuse for that if you're putting up something as a canon/continuity check. None. Esp. as the script books for the first couple of seasons are out, and it's all spelled out RIGHT THERE.

Plus, maps?

The West Coast has THREE states along the edge (discounting Alaska, because hey, Lower 48). One of which is very long. About 770 miles long.

t /irritable West Coaster

Okay, so, I came across something on a friend's LJ.

She'd been reading an HP fic, and thought the premise sounded familiar, and went back to find, yes, an XF fic posted about 4 years ago with the same setup and resolution. And then she found about half a dozen instances within the story where the language of the HP story was strikingly similar to the language in the XF story. In some places identical.

So she posted about this on her LJ, not in a nasty way. Someone told the HP ficcer, and she came over and said, in sum, "I felt the original fic was inspirational and I never meant to plagiarize and I'm taking the story down and sending an email to the original writer."

Which is good behavior on her part.

But... how do you use the exact same language in multiple places in a fic without doing it on purpose? Without having a copy of the other story next to you? Without knowing you're doing it?

I'm not saying she's lying, cause I don't know. But I have to be looking at another story, or have read it frequently and recently, to quote it verbatim. Am I a freak here?

No, Suela, you're not a freak. On the other hand, some people are really radically clueless about the meaning of the word plagiarism.

But... how do you use the exact same language in multiple places in a fic without doing it on purpose? Without having a copy of the other story next to you? Without knowing you're doing it?

Well, FWIW, I do find I repeat myself imagery-wise, from work to work. (Stephen King does it too, but that doesn't mean it's OK.) Sometimes, I absorb another person's turn of phrase, and use it myself, and don't rmember where I picked it up. And there are plenty of people who don't actually read the Bible themselves who quote it all the time, not knowing that particular phrase is from King James's guys.

Then again, random bit of fanfic not the Bible. You'd have to have been pretty obsessive to pick up that much phraseology, and then gotten over the obsession pretty much completely to not realize where the phraseology is coming from.

I saw that, and yeah, the idea that it was unconscious seems... unlikely. Once or twice I could buy that - I've certainly had certain books that I've read enough that I know there are turns of phrase that have sunk into me far enough that I can imagine using them unconsciously. (To use a not-so-literary example, I've used phrases from Buffy in conversation and then realized later where they came from, though I do that usually when talking with other fannish types.)

Multiple times, and all from the same source, though? No. My guess is that it was more "wow, that's a great scenario, it would really fit these other two characters" and in the course of porting and re-reading and adjusting a bunch of phrases crept in.

Then again, random bit of fanfic not the Bible. You'd have to have been pretty obsessive to pick up that much phraseology, and then gotten over the obsession pretty much completely to not realize where the phraseology is coming from.

I'm finding that pretty unlikely, given that the writer acknowledges she took the inspiration from the original XF story. It's not like she forgot it existed.

I think she just doesn't understand that changing "happy" to "glad" (for instance) doesn't make the language hers, doesn't make it not plagiarism.

But I'm a skeptic and a hardass, so I expect nothing much will change.

Someone (an author (and a crappy one)) told me that actual plagiarism could be avoided by changing one word in four.

Which seems terribly unlikely ... is there a legal definition out there?

Someone (an author (and a crappy one)) told me that actual plagiarism could be avoided by changing one word in four.

Wow. I do not begin to begin to understand the mindset. I mean, if you're not enjoying the whole creative thing in the first place, why the hell are you writing?

I mean, I can see that it could be an interesting creative writing exercise, I suppose - take such and such a text and see how far you can bend it by changing every fourth word. Okay. As a one-off game-type thing, I can see that being interesting. But as a choice for your normal writing? If they don't LIKE writing, why aren't they out playing football, or crocheting something, or baking something, or otherwise using their time?

t baffled

Well, there is that thing about copying stuff and using not more than 10% of the work. . . but I'm sure that plagiarism laws cover things more abstract than actual word counts.

why the hell are you writing?

Ego gratification for getting praise, even if you stole the work. People are weird that way. I was just listening to the TAL episode the other day about fans of the musical Rent who had a close knit community and one of them faked the classic "I'm dying of a dreadful disease" sympathy bid and totally burned the cast and community. People do some freaky things to get validated.