God, reading this thread makes me want to ring up my mum and apologise for the seven years of pure teenage brattiness I put her through, plus the ten years of pre-teen brattiness. (I live in terror of having children because karma would practically require that I end up with a kid just like me, and it would not be pretty.)

I understand that she said it because she was afraid for Buffy and didn't mean it, but I still think she doesn't get to play the 'how dare you leave' card.

Eh, I think I'm deep in the land of Joyce-sympathy at the moment, because I can kinda see her point--from her POV, she had an argument with her daughter, told her 'if you leave, don't come back' and her daughter (again, from her POV) basically did just that for three freaking months, long past the point of where anger or even a belief that her mother really meant those words would take the average teenager. I think in the midst of being angry and horrified that Buffy was possibly going to pull the same thing all over again, Joyce was trying to communicate how much she'd been through existing in that limbo for three months and how much it seemed like Buffy was punishing her for some words spoken in desperation and anger. Joyce doesn't know about the other circumstances, (you'd think the Scobbies would try to explain that other circumstances existed, but since they really knew jack, it couldn't have been very convincing) and for her, I think it's reasonable to be mad that Buffy took her words to such an extreme.

Not just bowled over, but realizing just how much of her daughter's life she'd been left out of. Not just left out of, but purposely excluded. It's going to happen eventually in any parent/child relationship, but this was done in a particularly brutal way.

Good points. I sort of saw Joyce's "don't come back" bit as her trying to get some measure of control over the situation. She needed to try to set some rules and the "if you go, don't come back" is pretty much the nuclear bomb of rules. But really, it was the only weapon in her Mom Arsenal she had left.

I also thought that Buffy on most levels knew that she could have gone back home. She just didn't want to deal with everything right then.

I'm all about the Buffy identification, but your point is very nicely argued, Leigh. I'm curious, what are some moments that still affect people from more minor episodes like DMP? Things that you've watched five times that still make you laugh hysterically or yell at the TV or hide behind the sofa.

"Isn't it nice? It raises the dead. Bloody Americans."

Almost every episode...quite possibly every episode... there's at least one, shining moment. DMP had a few of them, although they were mostly comic.

I think in the midst of being angry and horrified that Buffy was possibly going to pull the same thing all over again, Joyce was trying to communicate how much she'd been through existing in that limbo for three months and how much it seemed like Buffy was punishing her for some words spoken in desperation and anger.

Yep, that totally nails it, I think. Also, I always find myself coming down on Joyce's side partly because I flash back to the scene in the montage at the end of Becoming II where she finds Buffy's letter. So sad.

I'm curious, what are some moments that still affect people from more minor episodes like DMP? Things that you've watched five times that still make you laugh hysterically or yell at the TV or hide behind the sofa.

I recently rewatched Inca Mommy Girl, and I still have a really strong reaction to Xander's jerky behaviour toward Willow at the dance. I hate his reaction to her costume, and I hate when he's mean to her for shrugging. "Well, next time you should probably say 'shrug'." Shut up, jerky jerkface. Of course, it just highlights the wonderfulness of Oz.

basically did just that for three freaking months, long past the point of where anger or even a belief that her mother really meant those words would take the average teenager.

Eh. I don't know. I never did come back, and in fact, still have trouble asking for anything from my mom. We're friends now, and I can see where she was coming from, but I took it deadly seriously and never came home.

I don't think Buffy left town just because of what Joyce said. Had it just been that she may have stayed in town, but left the house. There were so many other horrible things going on that Buffy just wanted to disappear, not just leave her mother. And she nearly got what she wanted in Anne.

I'm curious, what are some moments that still affect people from more minor episodes like DMP?

I know there are heaps, but I'm suffering an extreme memfault at the moment. Xander and Willow's dreamscapes in Restless always make me tear up (and okay, not really a 'minor' episode, but Joss is always saying in interviews about the mixed reaction he got about it, and since it's my absolute favourite Buffy episode...)

Shut up, jerky jerkface.

Is it weird that I miss Xander being a jerk? He lost a lot of his bitterness in later seasons, which y'know good for the character, but it made him less interesting, I thought. The leaving-at-the-altar thing was prime jerk behaviour, though, so maybe he didn't get over it completely.

I don't think Buffy left town just because of what Joyce said.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that. What I meant was from Joyce's perspective, it couldn't help but feel like that's exactly what made Buffy skip town, and that I understand her anger at Buffy because she not only 'got out', she disappeared off the face of the earth for three months. If I was Joyce, knowing only what she knew about the circumstances, I'd be pissed too, especially if I found my daughter planning to run-off again a week after she turned up out of the blue on my doorstep. Obviously, she shouldn't have given that ultimatum in the first place, but her anger at Buffy in that scene didn't seem unjustified to me, given the circumstances.

I'm curious, what are some moments that still affect people from more minor episodes like DMP? Things that you've watched five times that still make you laugh hysterically or yell at the TV or hide behind the sofa.

Not Buffy, but pretty much the whole opening party scene in SHE on Angel is priceless. "Diego, pants on!"; "What mad genius invented these?"; " I don't dance"; "Still dead? I know the feeling."

It's a shame the rest of episode is pretty much worthless.

What about "Happy Anniversary"????

What about "Happy Anniversary"????

Um, what about it? Lots of nice interactions between Angel and Lorne. Lame main story, but I liked physics nerd girl and was sorry she never showed up again.