Also, I wanted to reach through the internet and strangle half the people quoted. Because they are WRONG.

Agreed. Don't know if I got worked up enough to want to strangle them, but yes very very, so very wrong.

Agreed. Don't know if I got worked up enough to want to strangle them, but yes very very, so very wrong.

I think actually, the urge is to scream FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING FUCK!!!! at the top of my lungs, hit them with a clue-by-four, and THEN strangle them.

It would be satisfying.

Hmm. This could be why I've not been online much this summer. People. I hates them.

And I watched about 5 or 6 episodes of S1 yesterday, and -- having *not* watched it from the start -- I was wondering: for those of you who DID watch Buffy from S1, did you have the sense that you were watching something unprecedented?

Yes. In fact, I just got S1 on DVD, and I'd forgotten just how much of the adult darkness was there really early on. Angel sits perfectly comfortably with the best episodes of AtS, and they were engaging with really serious stuff right back at the start. Watching Nightmares , I'd forgotten just how psychologically vicious some of it is.

Her dad telling her the divorce was all her fault and that they really didn't need to see each other anymore breaks me every time. I sometimes have to leave the room when I know it's coming.

That's the bit. It's done so utterly straight. That, for me, was the moment the show shifted gear, and became something very special. No previous equivalent show could have invoked such a serious subject as a part of a one-off storyline without being mawkish or crass.

Sean - If only you could get him to watch 5 or 6 hours (big stretch, I know) I'd send him season 1's Angel, and season 2's Surprise/Innocence, and then Becoming. There's your soap, right there. Throw in Passion for good measure, and he'll be hooked despite himself. I don't suppose you could pay a neighboring Swede to tie him to a chair and prop his eyes open with toothpicks, and make him watch the whole 5 or 6 hours in a sitting?

Hmmmm. A one hour conversion mission for a European. This is a toughie. How about The Yoko Factor, Dead Things, or Seeing Red ? There's darkness and intrigue, but our kids aren't kids any more.

Hmmm. One or two eps, prove it isn't just a teeny-bopper show.

"Hush" would be good, unless it comes across as a teen slasher movie. I'm not familiar with that genre, so I don't know.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned "The Body." It's about as teeny-bopper as a sucker punch to the gut. And doesn't require a lot of back story. (Joyce is Buffy and Dawn's mother. Anya used to be a demon and isn't really comfortable with human emotion yet. That's about it.)

If you get a second ep, go for contrast. IWMTLY is a little too after-school specialy at times, but has Giles' "aggressively cheerful music sung by people chosen for their ability to dance" line that a pure teen show would never dare to put in the mouth of a sympathetic character. IWMTLY and it really sets up the "Body" sucker punch in a way that "Something Blue" (which requires too much back story, IMO) doesn't do for "Hush." "Tabula Rasa" and either "Seeing Red" or "Villains" would also be a good combo that way, or "Band Candy" and "Earshot."

I'd steer clear of Buffy/Angel/Angelus eps. It may be a little too teen for the purpose because (apologies to B&A4Estas) Angel is so clearly the high school bf who she'll never forget even though he isn't long-haul guy.

I wouldn't recommend The Body except to someone who's seen a few eps and pooh-poohed it.

It gives a very clear idea of the heights the show can hit, but doesn't give a good picture of what the show is.

Which is why I root for Hush, because it's a pinnacle of the usual things -- creepy funny stuff.

See, I also need to eventually see S1 and S2 in their entirety, so I can better judge those early episodes.

Sean, I'm going to send you my tapes. Promise.

I'd go with Never Kill A Boy on The First Date, personally. Funny, dark, emotional.