Zoe: We're getting him back. Jayne: What are we gonna do, clone him?

'War Stories'


Buffy 4: Grr. Arrgh.  

This is where we talk about Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No spoilers though?if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it. This thread is NO LONGER NAFDA. Please don't discuss current Angel events here.


Cindy - Aug 17, 2003 12:49:18 am PDT #4798 of 10001
Nobody

The demon biker dudes weren't going to wait for anybody to catch up and comprehend things. Somebody at CSIS (Cordesman, I think) wrote a paper about the Buffy dynamics of fighting international terrorism -- temporary alliances, so on and so forth. Willow did what the short-term imperatives called for. She did the same thing with the Slayer power-up. Besides the guilt of telling the gang that the spell required the blood of an innocent, Willow just didn't have the time to argue the ethics. She was willing to make a relatively minimal sacrifice to gain Buffy's return.

HoyaSaxa -- I agree the Buffyverse people have to think, act, and respond quickly. Willow didn't raise or plan to raise Buffy because of the demon biker dudes, though. The Scoobies had planned on resurrecting Buffy all summer. Anya got the urn on e-bay; Willow sacrificed the deer before they even knew there were biker demons. They waited for Giles to leave before they knew there were biker demons. She had time to argue the ethics. She didn't want to.


WildDemon Cornelius - Aug 17, 2003 1:00:03 am PDT #4799 of 10001
Take your fingers off it, don't you dare touch it, you know it don't belong to you, to you...

Y'know, if I may tie together two discussions that have been pretty much separate so far, my idea of a Hell Dimension would be one completely devoid of liquor stores! (and without foamy pics of the female Buffy/Angel cast members, of course)...

And about the idea of a mini-crossover w/ Pylea in "The Gift"...someone could write a fanfic where that happens (and call it an "alternate Gift" or whatever), but I think this would have overloaded the end of "The Gift", if Pylea had spilled into our dimension w/ Angel and co. still inside it! Would've been a cool way for them to return to our world, but there would have been just too much going on w/ all those extra characters in there (I didn't like the rumored idea of the entire cast of Angel appearing in "Chosen" for the same reason)


Cindy - Aug 17, 2003 1:26:10 am PDT #4800 of 10001
Nobody

And about the idea of a mini-crossover w/ Pylea in "The Gift"...someone could write a fanfic where that happens (and call it an "alternate Gift" or whatever), but I think this would have overloaded the end of "The Gift", if Pylea had spilled into our dimension w/ Angel and co. still inside it!

Laughing in the good way, because you did what I do all the time in my mind - called the Buffyverse/Sunnydale - "our dimension".

Would've been a cool way for them to return to our world, but there would have been just too much going on w/ all those extra characters in there (I didn't like the rumored idea of the entire cast of Angel appearing in "Chosen" for the same reason)

I agree with this. The only thing I thought could have been neat is if, when the Angel gang went through the portal to return to their own verse, they'd ended up in Sunnydale just in time to see Buffy die. But there was too much going on in The Gift, for this to happen gracefully.


Noumenon - Aug 17, 2003 1:30:22 am PDT #4801 of 10001
No other candidate is asking the hard questions, like "Did geophysicists assassinate Jim Henson?" or "Why is there hydrogen in America's water supply?" --defective yeti

I think this would have overloaded the end of "The Gift", if Pylea had spilled into our dimension w/ Angel and co.

No, I wanted a big rift in the sky in Pylea or a bunch of Deveels in the town square, or just using the crossover to open the portal home. I wanted the crossover in Angel. The stuff that came through the portal in "The Gift" was cool.

By the way, can someone explain something I just read about Pylea?

I've always thought that it was an interesting take on a fairy-tale story. Finding out later on that it was a late direction due to contract problems with recurring characters explains (to me) a lot of the cheesiness of the sets.

Which characters?


Cindy - Aug 17, 2003 1:47:33 am PDT #4802 of 10001
Nobody

Nou, I think they wanted Darla and Dru back, and couldn't get either Julie or Juliet (I forget).


Gandalfe - Aug 17, 2003 3:23:41 am PDT #4803 of 10001
The generation that could change the world is still looking for its car keys.

I'm a lot less sympathetic to smokers than drinkers as far as being restricted by those who don't partake goes. So far as I know, there's not much chance of me getting cirrhosis from people at the next table having wine with their meals.

No, but there's a much better chance that someone will smash into your car because they've been drinking, not to mention beat the shit out of you.

Both of which are reasons why I can't understand why the hell pot is illegal, btw.


HoyaSaxa - Aug 17, 2003 5:18:54 am PDT #4804 of 10001
Diablo Robotico Up.

"Willow didn't raise or plan to raise Buffy because of the demon biker dudes, though. The Scoobies had planned on resurrecting Buffy all summer."

Cindy, true indeed. Those demon bikers may have aggravated the timeline in a way. I didn't clarify that in my initial post. I think if it wasn't for the demon bikers, the Scoobies would have had more time to flesh out the implications (such as reanimating Buffy in the coffin).

WildDemon: Having the entire Angel cast for "Chosen" would have been entertaining only from the perspective of having the entirety of the principal characters of the Buffyverse occupying the screen at the same time. But logistically and in terms of storyline, it would have gotten out of hand. Because Cordelia was in a coma, and Connor has, at best, a tangential relationship to the Buffy characters.


Cindy - Aug 17, 2003 1:46:23 pm PDT #4805 of 10001
Nobody

I think if it wasn't for the demon bikers, the Scoobies would have had more time to flesh out the implications (such as reanimating Buffy in the coffin).

They didn't even know about the biker demons when they went to resurrect Buffy though. The Scoobies' first inkling was at her grave, which they didn't dig up, prior to starting the spell. The biker demons showed up (and as far as the Scoobies were concerned - out of no where) mid-spell. The best we could have hoped for is it dawning on them that they may have resurrected her in her coffin, at some point after the spell, while the poor thing was gasping for breath and clawing her way out.


DCJensen - Aug 17, 2003 3:00:07 pm PDT #4806 of 10001
All is well that ends in pizza.

Well, I prefer to think that if the cermony hadn't been interrupted they would have thought about digging her up, like this:

"If the spell worked, why isn't she here?" asked Xander, confused.

"I don't know! It finished! It should have worked!" replied Willow. She was baffled.

"Oh dear god." Xander said, blanching as a thought crossed his mind. "you don't think she's...down there? Alive?"

Willow felt faint. "I - I - oh god! Oh god! The shovels! Are they..."

Anya was out of the clearing, running to Xander's car. "In Xander's trunk! I'll get them!"

"Hurry!" cried Tara, as she joined Willow and Xander tearing away the loose sod that covered the grave.

They imagined they heard a pounding deep inside the earth. Or was it imagination? Xander stood up and found a dead branch on a nearby tree. It yielded quickly to his powerful grip. Even as his mind was on Buffy he felt thankful for the strength given to him working construction during the past year.

Seeing that they had started digging by hand, Xander told Tara and Willow to stand back. He plunged the large jagged end of the four inch branch into the soft earth near the headstone and began dragging back the dirt.

Again and again he dug, taking chunks of earth out of the ground, flinging it every which way, making some progress. By the time Anya returned with the two shovels, The adreneline was coursing through his body and sweat was dripping out of his shirt sleeves.

Whipping off his shirt, Xander wiped off his brow and chest, and grabbed one of the shovels. Anya stared for a second at Xander's intensity and started in at the foot of the grave.

Tara consoled Willow, who was starting to fall apart. "My fault," she cried, "it's all my fault. I should have known."

"Shhh," conforted Tara, "We all should have thought of it. You missed it. I missed it. We all did."

In the distance, the sound of motorcycles grew closer.

Xander kept digging.


Noumenon - Aug 17, 2003 3:52:58 pm PDT #4807 of 10001
No other candidate is asking the hard questions, like "Did geophysicists assassinate Jim Henson?" or "Why is there hydrogen in America's water supply?" --defective yeti

Whipping off his shirt, Xander wiped off his brow and chest, and grabbed one of the shovels. Anya stared for a second at Xander's intensity...

Anya: "Soon he'll be sweating. I'm imagining having sex with him again."

Buffy: "Imaginary Xander is quite the machine."