That's a universal? I'm not being dickwaddy, I just don't know if that crosses cultural lines, or if it more like the subjectiveness of physical beauty.

I don't think a specific musical scheme crosses all cultural lines, but the ability to conform to a scheme requires talent. IM biased O.

Even within a culture, once you get beyond a certain level of skill, creative things get really subjective, obviously. But it doesn't mean that any acclaimed writer/singer/composer/painter/etc. isn't better at what they do than I am, or likely than I would ever be, even given 10,000 hours of work on my part.

Maybe helpful, Bobby McFerrin and the universal understanding of pentatonic scale.

As Dana notes, there are different musical scales that are more cultural. And things like Tuvan throat singing which are very different approaches.

But also, as with my example in hitting, singing involves a lot of different talents including the ability to get at the emotional truth of the lyric. So Cohen's voice might not be as pretty as Warnes, but he gets more out of the lyrics etc.

That Bobby McFerrin piece is uber-cool.

Bobby McFerrin is maybe the biggest argument for talent I can imagine. You tell me that anyone could do what he does with enough practice.

Weirdly, one of the several times I've seen McFerrin live, he was performing at the Three Rivers Festival in Pittsburgh.

He was joking about how people are always telling him that they can't sing but that everyone SHOULD sing, regardless of what anyone else thinks of their ability.

He walked out into the audience and zeroed in on a woman who looked particularly shy. She shook her head vehemently, but he would not be dismissed. Please, just try, he asked.

She opened her mouth and sang the most beautiful few bars of Ave Maria I think I've ever heard.

McFerrin was clearly stunned. He just stood and stared at her for the longest time. Then, he rushed into give her a huge hug.

It was a moment. Seriously, not a dry eye on the lawn.

Using the word talent makes it more problematic. The key is whether variation in skills are completely determined by environment or are partially determined by genes. Those skills can be fully or partially cultural specific, but the question remains as to whether genes play zero role in variation. The answer may vary for varying skills, but it seems really unlikely that none of the skills we value in which extreme variation is noted have that variation influenced by genes. I was born the same year as Magic Johnson. No doubt part of the reason he played basketball better than I do was because he worked a million times harder at the game than I ever did. But I'm five foot seven, and have genetically poor coordination. But is there any reason to believe that any amount of hard work have turned me into the player Johnson was?

Mind you your point about intelligence is relevant too. A lot of people don't appreciate how important intelligence is to athletics, how much being really good at a competitive sport requires split second decisions making and tactical planning. Being good at basketball or football or karate is a kind of intelligence. Years ago I heard one coach say to another "Yeah, he is quick. But, how quick is his quick."

GodDAMN, I love four days off. I don't have to go to work AGAIN tomorrow! So good.

I'm at work right now.