Current argument: Men cannot be friends with women they are attracted to

And there go half of the pop/rock songs of the '60s. Including most of Roy Orbison's and Gene Pitney's catalogs.

Including most of Roy Orbison's and Gene Pitney's catalogs.

Pfft. Whatever, it's not like they were real musicians anyway.

Singers.

I guess my worry is, how many dudes feel like this?

Also, take douchey musician guy: He's a scientist. What if he's in a position to decide who gets defined as scientist on panels/boards/whatever?

He doesn't even see how he's created a set of rules designed to shut women out of something that do not apply to men.

His argument was: Why aren't there any women rock musicians? And in order to "prove" his argument he created his own special definition of women, and said, "there, there aren't any."

What if he's in charge of shit?

Current argument: Men cannot be friends with women they are attracted to

Wasn't that the premise of When Harry Met Sally? Or at least the issue they open the movie arguing about?

ION, I just completed wasted over two hours in order to attend a mandatory 20-minute meeting with some muckity-muck in which we learned nothing. And then sat around for 45 minutes waiting for the bus back to the office. Man, what a frelling waste of my time. And your tax dollars. Bah.

And there go half of the pop/rock songs of the '60s. Including most of Roy Orbison's and Gene Pitney's catalogs.

Roy Orbison sang a lot about being friends with women he was attracted to? Sincere question. I know about two songs of his.

Why aren't there any women rock musicians?

Blink. Huh? This must be some no true Scottsman thing.

Dude. I have guy friends who I find attractive. Not gonna ever happen, but sure!

I mean, isn't part of being friends with someone is that you find them appealing? And sometimes you can find them appealing, have a totally platonic relationship and STILL think "Yeah, I'd tap that?"

Whatevs. People are stupid. Anyone dumb enough to believe adult people can't be friends with someone who they find appealing enough to put in the "Would sleep with if circumstances were different" is lying to themselves or just has really massive lack of self-control.

I have guy friends I KNOW would sleep me with me, and vice versa. Do we flirt? Sure! It's fun! I don't say/do anything with them I wouldn't do in front of my husband; ain't anything ever gonna happen -- we're all happily narried. But that doesn't mean I don't find them appealing. That just goes against basic human nature.

His argument was: Why aren't there any women rock musicians? And in order to "prove" his argument he created his own special definition of women, and said, "there, there aren't any."

To take his own arguments: one of his "points" is that women are not [as] underrepresented in classical music as in rock. So some mysterious something must be different.

Well, one of those something's is that many orchestras now use blind auditions where the performers are behind a screen for exactly that reason. And guess what? You put women behind a screen, they win auditions more often. What oh what could be the cause?

Well, one of those something's is that many orchestras now use blind auditions where the performers are behind a screen for exactly that reason. And guess what? You put women behind a screen, they win auditions more often. What oh what could be the cause?

I remember the first time I auditioned for all-state band in high school with this process. I walked into the room, and there was a chair and a screen. I had no idea whether I was supposed to wait for a signal to begin playing or what, and there was no one on my side of the screen to ask, and calling out questions to the other side of the screen seemed like it would totally defeat the purpose, so I finally just played the piece I was supposed to play and walked out of the room. I have no idea if anyone was even listening from the other side of the screen. (I didn't make it into all-state that year.)