Spike: Or maybe Captain Forehead was feeling a little less special. Didn't like me crashing his exclusive club, another vampire with a soul in the world. Angel: You're not in the world, Casper.

'Just Rewards (2)'


Natter 69: Practically names itself.  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


DavidS - Feb 29, 2012 2:21:16 pm PST #24412 of 30001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Oh, hello, light bulb--lots of critics were saying Katniss was Melungeon, then, weren't they?

That's the argument here.


DavidS - Feb 29, 2012 2:23:23 pm PST #24413 of 30001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Actually this seems to be the link.


§ ita § - Feb 29, 2012 2:27:26 pm PST #24414 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

That is the weakest argument on it I've ever read (eta: and I guess, the second weakest), though. Neither of them are arguments that she's not white, not like I've seen in fandom.

Thing is, at the end of the day, I don't get why people still insist she isn't white. She is, because the author said she was. Or, the author's opinion is at least as important as yours. You can't override it outside of your own head.

She was written white, so casting her white is at least not wrong, even if there are more interesting ways to go about it. It's completely consistent with the universe, so it's just one more missed opportunity in an ethnically undiverse landscape, not actual whitewashing. And I think it distracts from, say, things like the Avatar argument.


Jesse - Feb 29, 2012 2:33:07 pm PST #24415 of 30001
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

Yeah, I think it's just stupid to say "olive skin" = "not white." And it's not like there aren't ACTUAL problems with whitewashing.


Amy - Feb 29, 2012 2:37:42 pm PST #24416 of 30001
Because books.

"Olive skin" is used to describe all kinds of people -- sometimes Greeks, for instance. It didn't ping me at all that she meant Katniss was a person of color, but I also knew Prim was fair and blonde and blue-eyed, and so is their mother, I believe.


Jesse - Feb 29, 2012 2:39:17 pm PST #24417 of 30001
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

Anyone Mediterranean could have olive skin, I figure. And we generally call those people white now.


Amy - Feb 29, 2012 2:39:49 pm PST #24418 of 30001
Because books.

Exactly. I was just going for one example.


Jesse - Feb 29, 2012 2:41:25 pm PST #24419 of 30001
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

But really, and I know this isn't the current topic, those folks weren't always considered white in our culture. Due to race being an artificial construct generally used by the group in power against others.


le nubian - Feb 29, 2012 2:41:36 pm PST #24420 of 30001
"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."

And that Katniss looked quite different from her mother and sister and seemingly most of the people in her district.


Jesse - Feb 29, 2012 2:42:59 pm PST #24421 of 30001
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

I thought it was the mother and sister who were unusual-looking -- fancy, compared to the regular folk. Edit: Or, at least, there were generally two "looks" -- the more northern-European upper class people and the more Mediterranean-looking poor people.