But I'm angry and cynical. I think they won't stop destroying social security and medicare until average citizens are marching in the streets, forming general strikes, etc. Unless they suspect revolt, they see no reason to vote for citizens over corporations. It just doesn't pay well enough.

I am that cynical, too. I think that there is a lot of effort devoted to keeping all the average and lower income citizens angry at each other. And that there is no one who is representing liberal and progressive values, or even really articulating what those values are in a way that people can be for the values instead of for the "government" But my congresswoman (Louise Slaughter) is actually pretty vocal against those cuts. Of course she also just sent me an email asking for money!

Not only that, but I think the vitriol thrown her way would make what Obama's getting look mild in comparison. While the not-so-subtle race-bating they are using on the Obamas is loathsome, I never get the feeling it's really, REALLY personal like with the Clintons. The Clinton hatred on the Right is off the charts.

I disagree. While I think the (utterly irrational) Clinton hatred exists, I think the Scary Black Man in the Oval Office blew everyone's previous hatred right out of the water. I absolutely believe that.

While the not-so-subtle race-bating they are using on the Obamas is loathsome, I never get the feeling it's really, REALLY personal like with the Clintons.

I have heard some nasty, nasty, personal things about Michelle Obama. And the racially based stuff, which half the people don't even seem to see as racial based (he's a muslim, he wasn't born here, he must be lying about Harvard) seems almost worse.

Edit: Or what Steph said

Edit: And the people who say it can't be race based because he is as much white as he is black!

Yeah. Quite a lot of Republicans believe the only reason Obama was elected was because he's black, and they're outraged.

I think that certain segments of the American public were willing to believe any lie about the Scary Black Man's intentions, and that was part of the fuel behind the tea party.

I've faced reality and I'm moving on scheduling cataract surgery.

Oh, Todd, I'm wishing you sight-ma.

I think that there is a lot of effort devoted to keeping all the average and lower income citizens angry at each other.

Oh, lordy, yes. Pitting non-union private workers against government employees, especially teachers and firemen, in the recent Wisconsin stuff, really brought that home to me. We are not one anothers problem. But we're fighting over one ever-shrinking piece of pie instead of organizing against the Koch brothers and the like who have the rest of the pie and the entire dessert table it's sitting on.

ETA:

I've faced reality and I'm moving on scheduling cataract surgery.

Much surgery~ma to you. My grandmother had a very successful cataract surgery back in the 70s, and the procedure has only improved since.

On the other hand, a fair bit of the debt ceiling news coverage seems to revolve around the US losing it's AAA credit rating and no longer being seen as a good place to loan money. And, honestly, I think that's a fair assessment.

This. Honestly, I don't think a deal now will necessarily prevent that. I mean, it'll be less bad than if they don't get there, by a long shot. But while raising the ceiling was once pretty much an academic matter, the failure to do so and how this has all played out has exposed how completely, utterly disfunctional the legislative branch (in particular) has become, and that brings a whole new calculation.

I disagree. While I think the (utterly irrational) Clinton hatred exists, I think the Scary Black Man in the Oval Office blew everyone's previous hatred right out of the water. I absolutely believe that.

I think so too. HRC would be getting some nasty, nasty stuff to be sure, but the whole development and prominence of the Tea Party would probably be nowhere near its current state I don't think.

Have y'all heard that Wisconsin Republicans passed a bill requiring photo ID to vote? And then Walker closed 10 or 15 DMVs in Democratic areas and extended the hours of DMVs in Republican areas.

And if you need a photo ID, the DMV will give you one for free... but only if you know to ask for it to be free. Otherwise they charge you $20 or so.

(Many other states have passed identical photo ID voting bills, thanks to the Koch brothers.)

Many Republicans are just fundamentally undemocratic.

eta: Of course, the poor an minorities are much less likely to already have a drivers license.

I disagree. While I think the (utterly irrational) Clinton hatred exists, I think the Scary Black Man in the Oval Office blew everyone's previous hatred right out of the water. I absolutely believe that.

I should clarify - I meant in congress. I agree that in the general public on the Right, it is much worse. With congress, though, I get the feeling sotnewalling and attacking Obama is just a matter of policy. Plus, Obama was one of them, whereas the Big Dog was, in their eyes, the governor of a hick state who came out of a dirt-poor background. There was a lot of class hatred going on with the Clinton-bashing (and with Hilary, throw in a heavy dose of misogyny), and with politicians, I've always gotten the feeling, at least during the last few decades, that money & background trump race as a basis for loathing.