I neither said the pledge, nor stood. When I was quaker, there's a fundamental opposition to loyalty pledges (Ido not swear on a bible, just agree to tell the truth) and later, I took political and god-clause issue to it.

Not really here, just waiting for something to process.

Ha for hockey anthem crosspost. I do, in fact, know all the words to the Canadian national anthem too, but only in English. We don`t watch enough Montreal games to know the French one.

I have no issue with it. It's like going to a Kings Game and standing through the Canadian Anthem. It's just respectful.

There was a period of about a decade where there'd been an agreement of sorts to replace God Save The Queen with Advance Australia Fair as Australia's anthem, but it hadn't been made official. My grandfather, who was an ornery bastard, would stubbornly stay seated when everyone else stood for A.A.F., and then stand for G.S.T.Q.

I remember saying it in grade school, no matter where we moved. I don't remember ever saying it in High School at either the Catholic girls' school or the public High School I attended Senior year.

I also think it's weird to pledge allegiance to a flag first, not to the ideals of the country. I think there's something beautifully medieval about the idea of a allegiance, implying a liege lord.

I agree and this is why I stood politely, but did not recite the pledge.

I guess I can explain it best with paraphrased Steve Van Zandt lyrics.

I am a Patriot and I love my country...but what I believe in my heart, it ain't what I see with my eyes.

Where I grew up, I did not see justice for all, nor did I see leadership worthy of my oath. Too many symbols are idealized for reasons other than the ideals they are supposed to represent.

I can be respectful of an anthem in a way I can't of a pledge. Again though, commie hippie over here.

I will also note, at my Catholic schools, we NEVER said the pledge. In elementary school, we did have morning prayer, grace before lunch, after recess prayer and then final prayer in elementary school. It was like they tried to follow some sort of monastic prayer schedule.

In high school we just did morning prayer.

For your edification, To Anacreon in Heaven [link]

Ye Sons of ANACREON, then, join Hand in Hand;
Preserve Unanimity, Friendship, and Love!
'Tis your's to support what's so happily plann'd;
You've the Sanction of Gods, and the FIAT of JOVE.
While thus we agree
Our Toast let it be.
May our Club flourish happy, united and free!
And long may the Sons of ANACREON intwine
The Myrtle of VENUS with BACCHUS'S Vine.

(Anacreon was a Greek poet notable for his drinking songs.)

From my current perspective, I can see a purpose of a first-thing-in-the-morning ritual at schools.

When I was in first grade, we also had a vestige of prayer that was just quiet time at your desk, which also seems like a good idea.

The teacher made a half-hearted effort to stop them, then told me that I should just stand up so that they wouldn't bother me.

Ugh for both you and the teacher. Great lesson in tolerance.

When it comes to singing my national anthem, I only move the lips these days, but I stopped singing it years ago. It says stuff I can mostly agree with (as long as I ignore the Jews-only theme, which I understand why is there, but don't think it should be relevant any longer), but most people tend to interpret "To be a free people in our land" as a justification to deny the rights of others. Which is something that I just can't sing along to.