Willow: Were there dolphins? Tara: Yes. Many dolphins at the pound. Willow: Was there a camel? Tara: There was the front of a camel. A half-camel.

'Selfless'


Natter 66: Get Your Kicks.  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, pandas, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Zenkitty - Aug 05, 2010 6:44:34 am PDT #16437 of 30001
Every now and then, I think I might actually be a little odd.

It's true - there are a lot of ways that democracy doesn't always work "right", either, but I still want to live in a democracy. I'd rather deal with/fix democracy's problems than live under any other type of government.

Of course, I say that having never lived under any other type of government. Benign dictatorship, I hear, is great.


Trudy Booth - Aug 05, 2010 6:44:53 am PDT #16438 of 30001
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

Snerk. You know, on the one hand I think that's great. On the other hand, I can't help but suspect that many of them got rich by underpaying a lot of people, or laying them off. I'm such a socialist. But goodness knows nonprofits can use the funds.

Well, that's what Carnegie did. I'm glad to have all the stuff, but I also know he was a sonofabitch.

I think Warren Buffet has a pretty good track record, actually. Can't speak for the rest.


smonster - Aug 05, 2010 7:10:48 am PDT #16439 of 30001
We won’t stop until everyone is gay.

My "I'm such a socialist" claim was meant to be flippant, really. I'm a social democrat (but not necessarily a capitalist), or something. idk.

PSA - Threadless reprinted the Apocalypse Velma t-shirt! [link]


Sophia Brooks - Aug 05, 2010 7:14:27 am PDT #16440 of 30001
Cats to become a rabbit should gather immediately now here

You know, I read quite a bit of the decision, and it makes me a little nervous that it seems like the proponants put up a really piss-poor argument. I feel like I could have made a better argument for Prop 8 and I am against it. It makes me nervous that it was some sort of technique.


sumi - Aug 05, 2010 7:18:38 am PDT #16441 of 30001
Art Crawl!!!

Friend of mine sent me the link to the actual decision in Perry vs. Schwarzenegger. It's 137 pages long. She says that it is a "Findings of Fact" as well as a "Conclusions of Law" which is good new on appeal because that "Findings of Fact" are rarely overturned.

(I don't really know what those things are but she is an attorney so I'm sure she does. She is geeked out at seeing Constitutional history being made in front of her eyes, so to speak.)


Sparky1 - Aug 05, 2010 7:26:51 am PDT #16442 of 30001
Librarian Warlord

Here's my quick explanation of findings of law v. findings of fact that I use with students:

I am crossing the street and Britney Spears comes racing around the corner and hits me.

I claim she was driving at an excessive rate of speed, I was in the crosswalk and she jumped out of the car and says, "oops, I did it again."

Brit says she was driving the speed limit, and that I was drunk and threw myself in front of the car.

Whether or not she was speeding, and if I was drunk = issues of fact, and generally can not be appealed once the jury (or judge) decides them.

If I wanted to introduce a witness who heard Brit bragging that she'd run me down, Brit's attorney would object claiming that was hearsay and it can't be admitted as evidence. The ruling that the statement is hearsay (or not) is an issue of law, and it can be appealed.


shrift - Aug 05, 2010 7:31:32 am PDT #16443 of 30001
"You can't put a price on the joy of not giving a shit." -Zenkitty

Of course, I am also enraged at myself for getting so enraged at UPS.

I think it's reasonable to have moments of towering rage when dealing with UPS. Their asinine policies make things extraordinarily difficult when they should be simple.


DavidS - Aug 05, 2010 7:33:23 am PDT #16444 of 30001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Slate on how well reasoned the ruling was, including some further notes on Findings of Fact:

Then come the elaborate "findings of fact"—and recall that appellate courts must defer far more to a judge's findings of fact than conclusions of law. Here is where Judge Walker knits together the trial evidence, to the data, to the nerves at the very base of Justice Kennedy's brain. Among his most notable determinations of fact, Walker finds: states have long discriminated in matters of who can marry; marital status affects immigration, citizenship, tax policy, property and inheritance rules, and benefits programs; that individuals do not choose their own sexual orientation; California law encourages gay couples to become parents; domestic partnership is a second-class legal status; permitting same-sex couples to marry does not affect the number of opposite-sex couples who marry, divorce, cohabit, or otherwise screw around. He found that it benefits the children of gay parents to have them be married and that the gender of a child's parent is not a factor in a child's adjustment. He found that Prop 8 puts the force of law behind a social stigma and that the entirety of the Prop 8 campaign relied on instilling fears that children exposed to the concept of same-sex marriage may become gay. (Brand-new data show that the needle only really moved in favor of the Prop 8 camp when parents of young children came out in force against gay marriage in the 11th hour of the campaign.) He found that stereotypes targeting gays and lesbians have resulted in terrible disadvantages for them and that the Prop 8 campaign traded on those stereotypes.


SuziQ - Aug 05, 2010 7:34:18 am PDT #16445 of 30001
Back tattoos of the mother is that you are absolutely right - Ame

I'm so glad we have lawyerly explanations. Thanks! I read about 100 pages of the decision before my head was ready to explode. I want to read the rest tonight.

In shallow fashion news - Today's shirt has my back tattoo more exposed than usual and I'm in the office. I have gotten one compliment and a couple of interesting looks. Shoot, since I'm wearing a skirt, all 3 of my tats are visible. Chill people.


Gudanov - Aug 05, 2010 7:37:20 am PDT #16446 of 30001
Coding and Sleeping

I'm not sure what the term 'socialist' means anymore. In current political context it seems meaningless. I feel I'm pretty far left, but I don't think of myself as socialist.

From everything I've read (which is not much) I'm loving that decision about Prop 8. I've come to feel pretty strongly that gay marriage is a straight-up civil rights issue and that there isn't any constitutionally legit argument against it.

One thing that is a bit of a pet peeve in reading a couple of articles is the stock "this isn't want the founding fathers would have wanted". I don't give a flying-frack what the founding fathers wanted, they didn't live in a country that is anything like what exists today and there have been some massive improvements (not talking technology here, more like abolishing slavery, woman's suffrage, and worker protections) since their times. The constitution is what matters, not trying to guess what some long dead dudes would think of modern day issues.