Simon: I, uh... I never-never shot anyone before. Book: I was there, son. I'm fair sure you haven't shot anyone yet.

'War Stories'


Buffista Movies 7: Brides for 7 Samurai  

A place to talk about movies--old and new, good and bad, high art and high cheese. It's the place to place your kittens on the award winners, gossip about upcoming fims and discuss DVD releases and extras. Spoiler policy: White font all plot-related discussion until a movie's been in wide release two weeks, and keep the major HSQ in white font until two weeks after the video/DVD release.


Amy - Mar 14, 2013 7:31:55 am PDT #23796 of 30000
Because books.

That's choosing something else over your artistic career.

No, it's not. That's my point -- you can do both. My first novel was published while I was working full-time, and I had kids and a home to take care of.


DavidS - Mar 14, 2013 7:32:09 am PDT #23797 of 30000
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

"Fuck Plan B" is dismissive and contemptuous of the idea of a Plan B.

So what? What kind of responsible, inoffensive rock stars do you want anyway? Morrissey says ten pissier things than that before he has his tea. Go ahead and dump your Smiths albums. Your life will be poorer. Jesus, it's a stupid thing to hold as a grievance against Amanda Palmer.

Which is your prerogative, but if that's your standard for rock stars you're going to get some very tame music.

Why get mad at a rock star for advocating risk taking? Some people thrive on it - just about all rock musicians do.

Toni Morrison edited other people's writing, and wrote hers on the train home. That certainly didn't make her less of an artist.

Yeah, and I did my first book writing on my lunch breaks and working until midnight after I put Emmett down. But Toni and I had children and guess who doesn't - Amanda Palmer.

And juggling parenthood and a career in the arts is very different than advocating that young people just starting their careers leverage their biggest asset - their freedom.

I don't need to argue the point any further. I think the grievances against Amanda Palmer are ridiculous.


Steph L. - Mar 14, 2013 7:36:00 am PDT #23798 of 30000
this mess was yours / now your mess is mine

What kind of responsible, inoffensive rock stars do you want anyway?

Yes, that's exactly the crux of my issue with the statement. Some musician's persona. Right.


DavidS - Mar 14, 2013 7:36:58 am PDT #23799 of 30000
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Well, except I want to respond to this.

I have seen, over and over, myself included, the lower middle class artists choose the plan B without even trying Plan A, because the thought of being without security is terrifying

That is a pretty close paraphrase of my point. If you value security more than your work then you will have a much smaller chance of succeeding.

However, I do not think this blanket rule fits all. Some people - many artists - work best when they have a stable base. I think that's true for a lot of writers.

But for musicians? It's much less common.

So, I don't see how Amanda Palmer's comment is irresponsible or wrong.


DavidS - Mar 14, 2013 7:37:42 am PDT #23800 of 30000
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Yes, that's exactly the crux of my issue with the statement. Some musician's persona. Right.

What is your objection? She was condescending to people with straight jobs?


Steph L. - Mar 14, 2013 7:39:47 am PDT #23801 of 30000
this mess was yours / now your mess is mine

What is your objection? She was condescending to people with straight jobs?

My objection is that there's nothing wrong with having a plan B. I don't care who says "Fuck Plan B." I'm always going to disagree with them.


Consuela - Mar 14, 2013 7:43:14 am PDT #23802 of 30000
We are Buffistas. This isn't our first apocalypse. -- Pix

She was condescending to people with straight jobs

She was implying that the only route to artistic/financial success was to give yourself no other options. Which in my mind only works if you are, as I said above, persistent, talented, good at business/marketing, and lucky. And even then you still might fail.

The average young artist following her advice is going to fail and because they have no Plan B, will face financial ruin. And maybe that's okay if they are single and employable, but what about those with other obligations? Is it appropriate to tell them that the only way to be successful is to put all their eggs in one, delicately balanced, basket?

I don't think it's unethical of her to make these statements, but I can see how people would have a problem with it.


Amy - Mar 14, 2013 7:50:29 am PDT #23803 of 30000
Because books.

The average young artist following her advice is going to fail and because they have no Plan B, will face financial ruin.

THIS.

I don't think it's unethical of her to make these statements, but I can see how people would have a problem with it.

And THIS. Thank you, Consuela.


Jesse - Mar 14, 2013 8:01:17 am PDT #23804 of 30000
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

Sort of relatedly, a friend of mine just told me her cousin is going to get drafted into the NFL as a kicker, and my immediate reaction was, "Jesus -- I hope he's thinking about what he's going to do after." Because he's not going to be a star, in the best possible outcome.


DavidS - Mar 14, 2013 8:25:47 am PDT #23805 of 30000
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

The average young artist following her advice is going to fail and because they have no Plan B, will face financial ruin.

I think that's bullshit. Couch surfing and eating ramen for five years or ten years even isn't going to ruin you. I temped for ten years because it allowed me to NOT work for as much as four or five months out of the year. That is how I learned to write and establish my writing career. And I didn't take a full time job until I had child.

My objection is that there's nothing wrong with having a plan B

There is something wrong with it if it prevents you from the creative work you want to do. Day jobs will eat your life and after ten years you'll look up with nothing to show for it except that you paid the rent.

I think that not only is there nothing wrong with her strategy (and I do think it's a strategy, not an ethos), I think it's accurate to say "If you value security more than doing the work you will probably fail to do the work."

There's a reason why bohemia moves around. Because you need to find a place cheap enough to live where part time work will support you to do the creative work that you want. And after the artists move in and it gets gentrified, they're priced out of Williamsbug and head to...wherever the new place is. (Hoboken?)

I think she's right; Plan B is inimical to doing creative work. It's not impossible to do creative work with a day job or a backup plan. But it can be a very large obstacle to it.