Hot damn, Nestra - just read the BtVS/Sandman piece. That's lovely. Really lovely. Nails both.

SA is thinking about setting up a Sandman archive. Let's all encourage her, eh? (Unless there is already a big Sandman archive out there somewhere? And if there is - please tell me?)

Thanks, Fay.

Sandman is a weird fandom, I think, in that you're more likely to find crossovers than standalone fic.

Do you know, the notion of a Sandman archive actually makes me uneasy?

I like it in crossovers, but I think my comfort with derivative fiction doesn't extend to full-on Sandman fanfic. In fact, with the exception of the Potterverse, I'm not especially comfortable with book-based (and I realize Sandman is technically a comic, but I think of it as a vast, illustrated book) fanfiction.

Why do you think it's different, Plei?(Just curious, I have no opinion.)

with the exception of the Potterverse

Do you have any idea why this is an exception for you? Not challenging, just curious. (Edit: Damn, erika got there first!)

In fact, with the exception of the Potterverse, I'm not especially comfortable with book-based (and I realize Sandman is technically a comic, but I think of it as a vast, illustrated book) fanfiction.

I'm with you on that feeling about book-based fanfiction (although I'm not sure if my antipathy to HP fic mightn't have as much to do with my dislike of HP as my dislike of litfic). And Sandman falls on the book side rather than the comic side for me as far as that goes.

And yet, I'm perfectly comfortable with comics fanfiction. I think, for me, it has something to do with serial stories. TV and Comics both present ongoing 'verses made up of separate episodes -- fitting another story into (or outside of, for that matter) that timeline feels different, somehow, from litfic, where there's already something that already reads to me as a complete story.

Could just be me, of course.

Part of it is what amych said about serial stories. In the Buffyverse, even though the series has run its course, there are plenty of dropped threads, and plenty of indications within the existing canon of the show that there are many ways things could have gone (see: the Wishverse) but didn't. And, because it's network T.V., there are plenty of things that the creators can't explore within the boundaries of the medium. The same goes, in many respects, for standard comic books.

Unlike Sandman, where everything connects, the Potterverse contains enough throwaway lines and minor characters scattered about for it to feel incomplete. It is possible that this could be read as a critique of her writing.

There is, on occasion, a television show where I feel no urge to read or write fanfiction, because it feels like all the threads are there for a reason, and the story itself is complete. B5, for example.

And, on another level, with comic or T.V./movie fandoms, you're taking one form (primarily visual and dialogue, be it still or moving) and outputting another. Something about that transition adds a layer of distance for me, where if you are taking something that's already in the medium you're working in, rather than transforming something into that medium, it is all a little too close for my tastes.

Which just goes to show how differently we all relate to the whole fanfic thing - I do remember initially being baffled at anyone being interested in HP fanfic, but I've thoroughly boarded that particular boat now. (Although as a writer rather than a reader - for the most part I'm not interested in reading HP fic unles someone I trust points me to it.) For me, litfic is not a squick - and I do think of Sandman as a non-lit medium, because the art work is as important as the writing itself - and, moreover, there are other writers working on Lucifer and Books of Magic titles and so forth, as well as Jill Thompson's official manga fanficcing of Season of Mists ( At Death's Door) - the writing for which, incidentally, is not as good, imho, as some fanfic I've read. And there's the array of different artists who worked on the various story lines too, of course, so it's not purely Gaiman shaping the Sandman 'verse.

And there's also the fact that Gaiman so enjoys taking pulling other stories into his story - the way that Eve and Cain and Abel and Lucian and Hypollita Hall and so forth were taken from previous comic collections, and that other DC Superheroes are worked in, and myths and plays and whatever else Gaiman feels like - to me, it's entirely natural to extend this into fanfic.

So, yeah - I find it infinitely less troubling than RPS, which is a genre that I think Plei's totally comfortable with.

(This not being a red rag to bull RPS blah blah blah argumenty thing, obviously - just another big old 'Blimey, YMMV' wrt fandom and fanfic and genres thereof.)

eta

I'd also say that Sandman leaves thousands of threads, to me, that could be followed up. Not for the main story arc of Dream, certainly - but there are so many other wee characters and their stories that we glimpse. I grant that mostly I want to write crossovers with Sandman rather than straight fanfic, but I'm not ruling out the idea of straight fanfic. Reading interviews with Gaiman, in fact, has given a number of tantalising glimpses of possible avenues and unfinished tales - but even without that, you've got things like Death's one day of life, Ken and Barbie, Alianora (she of the many spellings), the 'cabinboy' Jim, Hob - loads and loads of interesting characters and situations...

But, again, YMCertainlyWillV.

So, yeah - I find it infinitely less troubling than RPS, which is a genre that I think Plei's totally comfortable with.

Well, I'm totally comfortable with some forms of RPS, not all of them. Though my issue with actor fic is less about morality, more about my personal tastes.

Is my issue with Sandman fic related to how often I read Neil's blog? Well, probably at least in part. It feels disrespectful to me. I don't know the man from Adam, but there you have it.

I would also feel uncomfortable writing fanfiction based on someone else's fanfiction, remixes aside. (With the remixes, there's the consent issue out of the way, for one. Why I have consent issues about literary works, I've no idea, but I do.) It is one thing if they've invited me to play in their 'verse, but a whole 'nother if I'm just reading and riffing.

I'd also say that Sandman leaves thousands of threads

Yes, this. There's so much mystery there.

The idea of playing wholly in most written ficworlds is scary ... I get that much of Sandman would be crossovers. Comparing one's written word to the original ... I'm certainly not that brave.